A map showing the US states where there are breeders of the Thai cat and contact details (click on the markers for email address). The Thai is only bred in the USA as far as I am aware. It is an "old style" Siamese meaning this breed is intended to be faithful to the original Siamese cats that were imported from Siam now Thailand. I think the original Siamese cats were actually slightly more cobby (stocky) than the Thai but the Thai is a really nice looking cat and far better than the extreme Siamese show cat that I call the modern Siamese (as opposed to the traditional Siamese). Note: Cat breeders don't provide addresses so you'll have to email or phone them.
The map:
Showing posts with label Thai cat. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Thai cat. Show all posts
Saturday, 31 December 2011
Sunday, 31 July 2011
Lovely Lila Siamese Elegance
This is another smooth, cool and elegant photograph of a seal point Siamese cat in Brazil by Gaine Portal - Flickr name fofurasfelinas.
The photograph captures the elegance of the Siamese cat. The mood really is in harmony with the cat breed. Everything is right about this individual cat for me - moderate in all ways and very elegant. This cat looks like a Thai cat (classic Siamese).
I expect to see a film star about to step in for the next shot. And the Siamese cat is well known as being a cat breed that is favored by film stars because it was and still is an exotic cat. See a page on the Siamese cat and film stars.
Once in the late 1800s and early 1900s it was a rare cat in the West. The wildcat hybrids have taken over the role of exotic cats in the 21st century.
The photograph captures the elegance of the Siamese cat. The mood really is in harmony with the cat breed. Everything is right about this individual cat for me - moderate in all ways and very elegant. This cat looks like a Thai cat (classic Siamese).
I expect to see a film star about to step in for the next shot. And the Siamese cat is well known as being a cat breed that is favored by film stars because it was and still is an exotic cat. See a page on the Siamese cat and film stars.
Once in the late 1800s and early 1900s it was a rare cat in the West. The wildcat hybrids have taken over the role of exotic cats in the 21st century.
The photo on this page is protected by copyright ©. Violations of copyright are reported to Google.com (DMCA). |
Wednesday, 27 July 2011
Siamese Cat in Siam (Thailand)
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Siamese cat in Thailand. |
This Flickr photographer, xiffy, has managed to photograph the real thing, a Siamese cat in Siam; now Thailand, of course. The photo was taken near or in Chiang Mai International Airport.
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It is really nice to see the "real thing". This cat is probably more purebred than a purebred Siamese in the USA! Despite not not being registered with any cat association. I mean the genetics are probably more pure.
Several things stand out to me. The cat has normal sized ears. Modern Siamese cat breeders tend to breed cats with ears that are far too large - abnormally so.
Secondly this is the classic seal point. What you would expect in Thailand. The color of the eyes are not deep blue although this is a young cat. The color may deepen. "Extraordinary blue eyes" are how Gloria Stephens in Legacy of the Cat describes the Siamese cat eyes.
Finally the torso color is quite dark too. The classic Siamese show cats have higher contrast between center of body and extremities.
I have another picture of a Siamese cat in Siam on the Siamese cat history page and he or she also had a dark torso.
This cat's body type is classic and not extreme of course.
Sunday, 26 June 2011
Types of Siamese Cats
Although cat breeders probably won't like to admit it or discuss it, there are many types of Siamese cats in terms of body shape and many types of Siamese cat in terms of pointing color and pattern. Yes, the points (the dark extremities) can be patterned - tabby and tortoiseshell for instance. Once upon a time there was probably one color for the pointing - dark brown/black called "seal" pointing. Perhaps chocolate was also an early color for pointing. Would this be diluted seal?
The original Siamese cat from Siam was a normal shaped cat. Over 100 years and more of selective cat breeding in the West (UK and USA) there are three main types of Siamese cat and they are: the original or traditional Siamese cat (think normal looking cat body shape), the classic Siamese cat which is also said by some breeders to be a new breed called the Thai cat and the modern Siamese cat (think skinny cat that is called "oriental" in cat fancy language). The Thai cat or classic Siamese is in between the traditional and modern in body shape. There are gradations of cat body shape in between these three standards.
Back to pointing. The more traditional cat associations including the Cat Fanciers' Association only recognize: blue, lilac, seal and chocolate coloured pointing while the more adventurous cat associations such as TICA accept a wider range - All pointed colors. This included lynx pointing (pointing broken up by the tabby gene) and tortie points etc.
When the Siamese has lynx pointing the cat hardly looks like a Siamese as the tabby coat encroaches onto the body breaking up what should be a smooth coat.
The long haired Siamese is called a Balinese. The Oriental Shorthair is a sort of multi-coated modern Siamese - same body type but a very wide range of coat colours and patterns.These are not strictly speaking types of Siamese cats because they are not Siamese cats but some associations treat them as Siamese cats.
The original Siamese cat from Siam was a normal shaped cat. Over 100 years and more of selective cat breeding in the West (UK and USA) there are three main types of Siamese cat and they are: the original or traditional Siamese cat (think normal looking cat body shape), the classic Siamese cat which is also said by some breeders to be a new breed called the Thai cat and the modern Siamese cat (think skinny cat that is called "oriental" in cat fancy language). The Thai cat or classic Siamese is in between the traditional and modern in body shape. There are gradations of cat body shape in between these three standards.
Back to pointing. The more traditional cat associations including the Cat Fanciers' Association only recognize: blue, lilac, seal and chocolate coloured pointing while the more adventurous cat associations such as TICA accept a wider range - All pointed colors. This included lynx pointing (pointing broken up by the tabby gene) and tortie points etc.
When the Siamese has lynx pointing the cat hardly looks like a Siamese as the tabby coat encroaches onto the body breaking up what should be a smooth coat.
The long haired Siamese is called a Balinese. The Oriental Shorthair is a sort of multi-coated modern Siamese - same body type but a very wide range of coat colours and patterns.These are not strictly speaking types of Siamese cats because they are not Siamese cats but some associations treat them as Siamese cats.
Monday, 7 July 2008
Thai cats
Thai cat - photo copyright Helmi Flick |
Thai cats are Classic Siamese cats. Well, in my opinion they are. The Messybeast author says that the classic Siamese is the Modern Siamese; this is wrong I am sure. The word "classic" conjures up authentic or old, the opposite to modern. Before I proceed let me say that my views as stated here might seem provocative or downright incorrect by some people in the cat fancy, particularly the people who produced the Thai cat! But this site is not written in the style of an encyclopedia. I don't regurgitate the "facts", I give my views on what I have decided is the truth. It is extremely factual but facts are often modified by opinion even in encyclopedias. I'd like people who disagree to tell me by leaving a comment if they can spare a moment.
Update 19-5-09: I am pleased to have received some information on this breed from Dr. Cris Bird, President PREOSSIA; chair of Thai breed, TICA. I have added her comments below.
Update 29-12-09: I am also pleased to hear from Mary Alexander of Blue-Gem Siamese. Please see below.
The Thai cat is a new/old cat breed. This new breed is a reflection of the drift back to the way things were in the Siamese cat world until about the middle of the 1900s (about 1960 to be more precise).
The Thai cat can also be called the Classic Siamese cat or even the Traditional Siamese cat. A Traditional Siamese cat breeder, Victoria (of the Thai Legend Cattery) in Russia says this:
"My cattery is registered in WCF (World Cats Federation). In this association the Traditional Siamese (apple-head) are named Thai cats..."This is an example of one of her cats:
Above:As can be seen this is a traditional Siamese cat but called a Thai Cat in Russia and other countries that register their cats through the Word Cat Federation. This highlights the complications with the Thai cats. It would have been better if all cat associations and cat fancy people had stuck with "Traditional Siamese" to refer to old style Siamese cats. What am I talking about? It's actually all spelled out in a long article on Siamese cat history.
In summary, when the Siamese cat was imported from Siam (Thailand) in the late 1800s (1884) this cat, rare as it then was at that time, was simply a normal looking cat with a pointed coat. In fact, the face and body were quite rounded, not at all long or "foreign" in type ("foreign" in the cat fancy means slender and "type" means appearance and shape). In the mid 1900s the cat fancy (cat breeders) decided to "refine" the appearance.
This meant making the cat more delicate and elongated, rather peculiar looking in fact and not at all natural in appearance. A bit like an over done face lift. By the end of the 1900s and in to the 21st century the appearance of a once normal domestic cat had changed out of all recognition to a cat breed referred to as the Modern Siamese cat. The cat breed was still called the Siamese cat, however.
Thai cats photo copyright Helmi Flick |
What happened is that there is now a range of appearances from the contemporary (Modern ) through (via) the Classic to the Traditional (more rounded head and face). There is no definition of a Classic Siamese or a Traditional Siamese as far as I am aware (except for the new breed standard for Thai cats) but Thai cats are probably closest to the mid range Siamese cat or Classic Siamese cat. It is a great day for traditionalists. And it is apparent that things are changing as Helmi Flick, one of the worlds best cat photographers is now being asked to photograph Thai cats. Until recently she would rarely meet the traditional looking Siamese at cat shows for the above reasons.
Thai cats - Rock - photo copyright Helmi Flick |
- "Traditional Siamese" and "Classic Siamese" are not official breed names.
- The breed should not be referred to as "Classic" or "Traditional" Siamese. The only correct names are "Thai" (recognized by TICA and WCF) and "Old-Style Siamese" (semi-officially recognized by GCCF and the OSSC in the U.K. at www.oldstylesiamese.co.uk, as well as by PREOSSIA in the U.S. www.oldstylesiamese.com). My response: I am pleased to make the correction but as I said I am simply presenting my argument as I see it. The terms Classic and Traditional are widely used in the cat fancy generally.
- Cristy also says, "be sure to use only photos [of the breed] obtained by people who show the breed in TICA, WCF, and GCCF. Photos from breeders who don't show are often of non-authentic cats. There are a lot of cats being sold as "applehead Siamese" that are not authentic. The non-authentic cats typically have fluffier coats, stocker bodies, and heads like a British Shorthair or American Shorthair." Thanks for that enlightening information.
I think it's important for people to see what a beautiful modified wedge Siamese should look like. These kittens...are sired by my Bacchus, who's grandfather was a recent import from Thailand. Bacchus grandsire was brought into this country by Dr. Cris Bird. She and a few others, like me, are working to preserve these genetic linage's, and promote a healthy well balanced Siamese cat. The kittens photo's are taken at 5 weeks old. All seal points, Thai. Or what some people also call a Classic style Siamese.
Photo above: copyright by Blue-Gem Mary...Thank you very much for sharing your experience and expertise with us. Update 26th January 2011 All the above relates to the USA market. In the UK the Thai cat exists as a group that started as just the Korat. The Thai is two naturally appearing variations (despite what anyone may claim) in the Korat. They are the (a) Thai Lilac a lilac self cat with green eyes and (b) Thai Blue Point Blue pointed cat
This is classic breed standard speak for pretty much a normal cat head shape only the standard goes on to say that the head should be longer than wide but not in an extreme way. The reference to "extreme" is a reference in my opinion to the extremely narrow Modern Siamese cat head. As expected the description of the head shape is in so many words saying that it should be somewhere in between the Traditional and the Modern (my interpretation).
The acceptance of Thai cats by TICA (but not notably the CFA) is for me (this is my view only) a quiet admission that cat breeders got the breeding of the Siamese cat wrong and bred too far from the conventional Siamese appearance with resultant health and frankly appearance problems. People just found the Modern Siamese less attractive than the good old fashioned Siamese cat. Although TICA wouldn't agree to this assessment.
They have maintained recognition of the Modern Siamese (or what is referred to as the Siamese cat). The TICA "general description" section of the breed standard states that Thai cats should resemble the original indigenous pointed cats of Siam (now Thailand). In my view the original pointed cats of Siam were in fact more cobby and rounded than even the Thai so I am not sure that TICA have got this right. The Siamese cat history page on this website bears out what I say. TICA stress again in this section that this cat must not be extreme.
TICA reinforce this by saying that Thai cats are really a recognition of the breeders who stayed loyal to the traditional Siamese cat. As to the body it should be "slightly to moderately long". In other words more normal but not stocky or in any way cobby. This is well demonstrated in the photographs of Helmi Flick. As expected cross-eyed Thai cats will be disqualified in competition. This is a recognized defect (Siamese cat health problem) of the Siamese and can be found in the Himalayan too.
Sources:
- TICA breed standard
- Myself
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